“Behind the Screens” is a series developed by AIA Chicago’s Editorial Advisory Committee to highlight the members of the chapter. Throughout the year, the series will showcase Fellows, Architects, Associates, and Affiliate members.
Name: Alex Sanchez
Affiliations/Credentials: Assoc. AIA
Title: Designer, SMNG A; Co-Founder and Host, Beyond the Surface
Degree: Bachelor of Architecture, Illinois Institute of Technology
Name: Caleb Kwok
Affiliations/Credentials: Assoc. AIA
Title: Designer, Perkins&Will; Co-Founder and Producer, Beyond the Surface
Degree: Bachelor of Architecture, Master of Engineering (Construction Management), Illinois Institute of Technology
AIA Chicago involvement: Wing Mentorship Co-Lead (current); Student Director (2025)
How did the two of you first meet, and what made you want to start a podcast together?
Alex Sanchez (AS): We met during our first year of college as late night studio buddies in Crown Hall. I would always go to the studio late, since I worked during the day. There weren’t too many people there most of the time, but Caleb was always there. One day, he entered a conversation I was having with a friend, and we talked for a few hours while working on our studio projects. We became good friends and partners through late night conversations, study, and support. We both began to get more involved in leadership, Caleb in AIAS, and I led in NOMAS. During our third year, I was the co-professional development chair of NOMAS.
I was also a first-generation college student, and it was hard to envision what my future would look like. I remember having a conversation with Caleb where I mentioned wishing I could know how architects got to where they are and how they did it. I enjoy their work, but I wanted to know how I could get to where they are. The idea for a podcast started by making these conversations accessible. For students like us who worked outside jobs, it was not always possible to attend a lecture or panel, so these recorded conversations would serve as a way students could grow even if they couldn’t be present.
Caleb Kwok (CK): We also felt like recorded conversations was a great way to hear the actual voices directly from the people we speak with, so instead of editing down a transcript, we would edit down audio, but it would still contain their genuine thoughts and feelings in that moment.
During our third year, Alex mentioned wanting a way to talk with more architects and to share those conversations with others. We were already more heavily involved with student organizations and trying to network, so I thought it would be a good way to push myself to have more conversations and get to know more people. In terms of how the podcast tells stories, my parents grew up and immigrated to the U.S. from Hong Kong, so I’ve always been interested in the idea of telling stories of people and their families. I’ve been excited to have people talk about their backgrounds and how that influences how they have become the way they are today.
How do you balance your design careers with producing Beyond the Surface, and what does a typical week look like?
CK: The overall workload varies week to week, but we try to have regular team meetings to address our goals and upcoming things. As the producer, I’m constantly planning out the next steps and identifying potential guests, and contacting people, so generally being knowledgeable about firms and things happening in Chicago is helpful. When it comes to balancing it with work, the bulk of it comes outside of work hours, but working at an architecture firm helps me stay aware of projects around the city and the people involved in the industry.
What’s one part of the podcasting process that listeners would be surprised to learn takes a lot of work behind the scenes?
CK: There is a lot of management related work when it comes to long term planning, for guests, for marketing, and having a vision with the team. While the recordings take time, it is the preparation for the episode and the work after the recording that take a larger effort, including even finding our guests, whether that is networking, word of mouth, or reaching out via email.
AS: There is no correct way to podcast. When we first began, I would hold myself to the standards for other podcasts. When starting out, I would try to make everything scripted, and I had trouble making the conversation flow, but over the years we have modified it to a series of conversation topics instead of specific worded questions, which help the conversations feel natural.
After interviewing so many professionals, what is one lesson that has had the biggest impact on your own career journey?
CK: Some of our earliest conversations with Maurice Cox and Ernie Wong really shaped how I see design. The scale and public thinking that urban planners and landscape architects have is different from how architects see it, and on top of that, they both had conversations about how designers can (and should) have a positive impact on the world around us outside of design work.
AS: A recent conversation with Rana Lee, who is not an architect, made me rethink the way I talk about architecture. We get so used to talking with architects, we forget how to present ourselves to others. Rana spoke about communication as a tool, and how we bring value to architecture in the way we present it to people who don’t understand design.
One of the strengths of the podcast is the variety of perspectives you feature. How do you approach selecting guests and stories that reflect the diversity of the profession?
AS: When we first started the podcast, we aimed to interview underrepresented voices in architecture. So many of our early episodes were people we already knew or had conversations with, especially through AIA and NOMA. Now, we tend to aim to interview people who are involved in community design, sustainability, and leadership. We feel diversity should be the standard; we try to get a wide range of voices since we know everyone has a story to tell. That being said, many people trying to make a difference in the profession are people of color and we aim to give them a platform so their story can be heard because diversity already exists in the profession, it is just not always found. We believe showcasing a wide range of voices in design can be a template of the architecture that should exist in every space.
CK: When initially starting, we wanted to challenge the ideas behind what “diversity” in the profession means. We like to highlight how someone’s background influences them, and for a profession with a large impact on society, we believe it is important to help elevate a wide range of people more representative of the general population.
What role do you think storytelling plays in creating a more equitable and inclusive architecture community?
AS: As one of the first people to attend a university in my family, I understand how my decision and roles impact others in just my family. I always tried to shine light on others who had a similar story, too. These conversations proved to me that my dream was possible, and I hope the listeners feel the same way. Storytelling is not only about the person being interviewed, but when someone hears a story, they relate to; their story is being told too.
CK: Sometimes the best way to create positive change is to remind people of things they don’t always think about. Designers can get caught up in work and how things look, but to remind them how the end users experience space can sometimes be just as impactful, especially if those communities don’t get to interact with designed places as often.
What conversations around equity and inclusion do you think the profession needs to be having more often?
CK: How unique perspectives and experiences contribute to the design process when it comes to understanding end results for users It is crucial that people educate themselves on issues, but in a way that can change how we see design.
Have any guests shared perspectives on sustainability or climate action that have particularly resonated with you?
AS: There have been some guests who talk about sustainability and our role in designing sustainability. One of the conversations that resonated with me was with Michel Rojkind, where he describes how sustainability should be the standard and pushes for regenerative design. He talked about how net zero and sustainable buildings aren’t enough, and we should do more to start healing the environment with buildings and design. This conversation helped me see a building as a vessel that contributes to society, and it is up to us to decide whether it will be used positively or negatively for our environment.
What advice would you give emerging professionals who want to advocate for sustainable design in their workplaces?
CK: When talking about sustainable design, think about how it can have a positive impact on others, but also why the clients would/should consider it.
What impact do you hope Beyond the Surface has on the culture of architecture in Chicago and beyond?
CK: One goal for Beyond the Surface is to educate people about how design and architecture are a part of our lives, and to highlight some of the people involved in that work. I believe that designers’ personal backgrounds and views impact the type of work they produce and ultimately how that influences users, so I hope that our conversations make people think about how their design beliefs impact others. I also hope people not in architecture but interested in design (general public) can listen and understand that designers are also human that share similar backgrounds and also hope for positive change in the communities they live in.
What responsibility do architects have to share their experiences, challenges, and lessons learned with the next generation?
CK: Architecture is an industry built on accumulated knowledge, so it is important to have open conversations. Even if not everything can be easily shared, being honest about the struggles and challenges with encouragement can be helpful. For young designers, they have to remember that design is a constant learning process and iteration, and for the more experienced professionals, sharing their stories can also be a good way for them to reflect on how far they’ve come, and consider how they want to approach the rest of their careers.
Have you seen the podcast create connections, opportunities, or dialogue within the architecture community that you didn’t anticipate?
AS: Not only does every conversation begin a good connection with our guests, but we have expanded our network drastically for the podcast. The podcast gives us the opportunity to have conversations we wouldn’t normally have and increases our shared knowledge and understanding around architecture. This has benefited me in networking and the way I present myself. The podcast is also a great conversation starter when networking. Something I didn’t anticipate was having such a large network so early in my career. The podcast has given me recognition, not only with awards, but in a way I feel people pay attention to me a lot more.
CK: Doing the podcast has pushed me to be more curious about the things happening around Chicago and the architecture and design community. Before, I would see projects and people and find it interesting and maybe remember parts of it, but now, I’m constantly trying to stay involved and knowledgeable. It is also really rewarding to see previous guests have successes, since now I understand how they got to where they are.
Is there a dream guest you haven’t had on the podcast yet?
CK: The cheesy answer is the best guest is the next one, but honestly, my dream isn’t about one specific guest, but all the possibilities of having stories from a variety of sources. I hope to someday interview people that influence design in ways completely unexpected or even have conversations to people not in design industries but are involved in communities where design and architecture have improved the lives of people in the area.
AS: One of my dream guests would be Smiljan Radic. Not only did he get the Pritzker Price this year, but I am very inspired by this work. We have been aiming to interview him for a while, but he isn’t an easy person to schedule. I still hope one day we will get the chance to.
What has been the most memorable moment in Beyond the Surface’s history so far?
AS: The most memorable moment was when we grew up with our team recently. For a while we were a team of four and as graduation neared, we posed the question on whether we would continue the podcast or not. We were still unsure until a few months after graduation we ran out of episodes and missed our typical release. We had the month to reflect and realize we wanted to keep going and grow. We brought two new members to our crew and began to plan what our next chapter would be. There is so much we are working on now; you will just need to wait and see.
